Closed Circles & Additonal corpses trick

Post related to “fake deaths”. I always work under my own premises and sometimes I explain them as I go. There are things I tend to assume and others I don’t believe. I consider them as possibilities before discarding them.  Additional corpses isn’t something I’ve believed to exist in Umineko even less after it was stated Kinzo was dead before all games.

What opens this topic is the idea that there are additional corpses who are not from any of the character and which objective is to fool the reader into believing a character has been murdered serving to cast doubts whether people are actually alive or not.

> This entry ends with a ridiculous theory I thought of and that I’d rather not see happening.

The way I understand it it’s that the idea behind these corpses is to make certain characters be exonerated from being the culprit since a dead person (completely dead) cannot possibly murder another.

Certainly a dead person can’t directly kill another, just like the real Kinzo can’t directly murder anyone on the island because he isn’t alive anymore, there must be somebody else carrying out whatever he tried to do on that 4-5th of October. The idea behind this is we are made to believe that a person who has faked his death (assuming we believe it) is clear from suspicion because he is assumed to be “dead” therefore making that person a “victim”, therefore not a threat, therefore not the culprit. Normally this would hold true.

This line of thinking makes sense from a regular person point of view, but this belief in all moments assumes that the corpse of the victim found is 100%  proven to belong to the person it should. Meaning that therefore this corpse cannot be other than the person who one would “think” it belongs to. This corpse can only belong to this “certain” person and no other to assume that this person is certainly dead.

  • Aren’t there major problems with all of this..?

We believe that the body that lies before us belong to no other than the victim. I’ve never been much eager to believe this because I wouldn’t expect additional corpses to exist in this story because of the premise of a closed circle. Likewise regularly one wouldn’t fancy the idea that a killer would be bringing along  corpses to fool the victims. This idea never sounded right to me because of the premise that demanded that:

“Additional bodies are to be introduced to the closed circle”

How is it even possible? There’s only one logical way. We can speculate that additional bodies have been “previously” been brought to the Rokkenjima before it became a closed circle right before the typhoon came. How they preserve the body, where they hid it , these details escape me. I only view it as a possible scenario.

Following the belief (now almost completely certain) that unless a supernatural force is involved (how Furudo Erika got to Rokkenijma for example), it’s basically impossible to enter or leave the island until the storm is over. In Umineko’s story this means that only when the typhoon is gone and the boat comes on October 6th in the morning when closed circle can be broken. This means that nothing else should enter the island after the storm breaks out.

Even if the culprit would have someone else bring the corpses to the island it’d mean that there’s another accomplice we haven’t heard of. It’d also mean this person would be coming to the island by boat. This isn’t believable because of the terrible weather where it would be suicide to go out the sea in the first place.  This makes it impossible for anyone to leave the island and make it out alive. In conclusion it sounds more logical to believe that:

“Additional corpses could have only been added to the story PRIOR to Rokkenjima becoming a closed circle.”

One common question is who would resort to this? A desperate innocent person and more likely the culprit to fake his own death. With the exception of Rudolf none of the people on the island were that suspicious a murder was going to take place (unless they found the gold) Of course, the killer’s goal would be to trick everyone including the reader into believing that he himself isn’t the real culprit of the story. The belief that Kinzo faked his own death and the burned body we saw in past EPs belonged to him fits the old belief that Kinzo was the culprit responsible for carrying out the murders before we learned Kinzo was already dead at the beginning of the game destroying this claim and likely the way I see it putting an end to the believe that additional corpses to fake someone’s death  such as in Higurashi could exist in Umineko.

Additional points

Where would they get a corpse that would look like one of the characters? Is it viable?
How would they do it?

There’s a slim possibility of getting a lookalike body to exist in the vast world. It’s still difficult to accept it but even more the fact that it could be realistically possible to fool others into mistaking someone’s body for a total stranger under normal circumstances unlike they were perfect twins (again Higurashi)

The type that Higurashi presents is the type that I could believe because it wasn’t a closed circle unlike Rokkenjima. The type of scenario in which the body is burned thus where the body is barely recognizable. We (in this case it was the police) could inspect it and find it to have similar features but it’d be still impossible to confirm the identity of the victim. That’s the type of trick.

The only case where this is hinted is on Kinzo’s case whose body’s location is unknown. Asides from it, cases where the bodies are unrecognizable exist but one can usually tell it belongs to said victim when they had at least the chance to look at them. Once again it’d require for the culprit to bring additional bodies to the island before the typhoon hits. Measuring the probability of it  to exist I’d deny it under the basics that:

  • Additional bodies must be introduced to the island in order for the trick to exist (only feasible prior to the family conference)
  • It’ll probably screw up with the body count once starts. People vs bodies argument would ensue.
  • The bodies must look alike the victim to fool anyone otherwise they’d see through it (despite the fact they don’t always examinate the bodies in details)
  • The bodies must be unrecognizable. This is what makes this trick perfect.

It makes more sense to work under the premise that someone is faking his or her death  or that they’re using a trick switching corpses and moving them around to fool the victims than in the possibility of additional corpses being introduced to the island by the culprit as demonstrated here.

More to the point, would they pull the same trick again?

Terrible fake theory you’d rather not read :

Any character, say, Rudolf finds himself a perfect twin.
He kills him and brings his body to Rokkenjima.
Everyone thinks he’s dead when in fact he isn’t.
Profit.

Not happening. Then again many things are possible when we ignore many of the rules.

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5 Responses to Closed Circles & Additonal corpses trick

  1. sacchi says:

    10. Twin brothers, and doubles generally, must not appear unless we have been duly prepared for them.

    And we haven’t.

    • sacchi says:

      At least, the Rudolf theory. But that Knox rule says “Doubles”, and it’s probably a reference to

      SPOILER EPISODE 7 FROM HERE ON, YOU’VE BEEN WARNED.

      Beatrice, being the mother and daughter.

      • keikakudoori says:

        Exactly, I don’t buy it. Unlike Higurashi Umineko is closed circle therefore certain restrictions apply. That type of thing violates Knox (the original) and Knox’s 8th: “It is forbidden for the case to be resolved with clues that are not presented.” because there aren’t as far as I know characters that have twins. Kyrie has her sister and they look similar but that’s about it. It’s nothing on the level of Shion and Mion. Also I don’t see many of the characters pulling this stunt of getting additional corpses into the island for this trick. On the other hand, Kinzo was the one who fit this description the best (same as Higurashi) because his body was unrecognizable thus why it was possible for him to be the culprit back in EP1. The rest of how this trick could work in a closed circle is difficult to believe.

        The original Knox mentions twins and doubles, however, Umineko Knox is more lenient as it only mentions that “it forbids for a character to disguise themselves as another without any clues.” and not much about twins or mother/daughters which EP7 happens to mentioned and explain.

        As for the rest. O-ho I see you reached one of the many conclusions that I did after EP7.

        • sacchi says:

          “it forbids for a character to disguise themselves as another without any clues.”

          Yhea, but then you have Maria, who doesn’t care how you’re dressed/disguised. She accepts you on your personality, like making a difference between Mama/Black Witch. No need to disguise…just act like the wtich, and in her eyes, you are the witch.

          Hehe, looking back at old stuff makes you realize how much playword and weird stuff R07 put in his games.

  2. lol says:

    All corpses are confirmed
    Episode 1 and episode 4 tea party

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