EP 6 Game Results – Kanon Dead or Alive?

This part struck me the most. Kanon had died on the 2nd Twilight. It was because I couldn’t properly match it to the game board counterpart.

Before anything, I don’t completely trust the game results same as I don’t completely trust the Tips/character information. However in most cases when they’re backed up by the red truths, we can assume that said characters are usually dead. More to the point it tells us what characters are still alive by the time the game ended so we can focus on who died or who could be faking his death.

* Most of this entry can be dismissed as “that’s how it works” and there’s no need for the game to “explain it.” Also the fact that the bomb would likely kill everyone anyhow so the end result would the same.

Usually the magic part matches the non-magic part in Umineko. Either intially truthful or not said character end up being victims for example we have in the same EP Kyrie, Natsuhi, Rosa, Maria, Eva are declared all dead by the red.

Battler being one of the victims is also declared to have died on the 1st Twilight this makes sense since the “game” (GM Battler) is trying to fool us into thinking he is dead and in fact he had faked his death. We interpret it as “fake death”

Game results for Dawn from Umineko wikia

Game board Erika comes back and breaks open the closed rooms and kills (how one interprets her existence doesn’t change the fact) had killed 5 people. According to the game board Erika hadn’t been able to kill Battler because he “escaped” the room before she got to him therefore the Logic Error of how he escaped in the first place. My point is that Battler was supposedly very much alive at this point because the closed room preserved by the seals preserved the body making it that no other person other than Erika was able to reach it before her: “The guest room was sealed at the time that Battler’s ‘corpse’ was examined, so until I came again and broke the seals, it was absolutely impossible for anyone to go in or out. Therefore, when I entered the room, it is certain that Battler was hiding somewhere inside the guest room.”

In other words :

  • Battler was in the room and he has hidden himself.
  • Erika searches for him but fails to find him, Battler uses this chance to slip out. (“The only chance Battler had to escape was after I broke the seals. To be even more specific, he had no chance to escape except for the time I was in the bathroom.”)
  • Kanon comes in and saves Battler by switching places with him. (“The one who rescued Battler was, without a doubt, Kanon.”)
  • The chain lock is reset not breaking the closed room created. Erika is unable to find Kanon (and Battler) “Battler does not exist within the guest room.”
  • “Kanon doesn’t exist in the room” “Kanon does not exist in the guest room .Of course, this includes all parts of the closet, the bedroom, and the bathroom.”

There was no opportunity for Furudo Erika to kill Battler like she did with the others or  even getting near him once she entered the room for the second time. She only the time she was with Battler was when she first found the body and Battler was declared “dead”.

Same for Kanon, Erika could not have been able to kill anybody in that room since she couldn’t find either Battler or Kanon.

We come to the conclusion that at the moment the game ends “for all eternity” both Battler and Kanon should be alive in both the meta side and the game board. This here is the issue because not so reliable game results tells us otherwise – the both Battler and Kanon had died despite what the fact that game board doesn’t match what the magic scenes show – Kanon should not had died and Battler should be alive.

Thus piece Battler was either indeed killed in the room or once he left the guest room. IIARC despite how outrageous it sounds there’s nothing said about Battler or Kanon getting out of the room alive. Only that one leaves and the other saves the other.

“Of course. Three people–in other words, three bodies–went in or out. Only you (Erika) and Kanon entered, and only Battler left. It has already been said in red that all people can only use their own names. Therefore, the names Erika, Battler, and Kanon can only be used by those people.”

This strange train of thoughts ends here.

Funny enough this ties back to my, though not my style, fantasy theory of Kanon being the only supernatural entity in the story thus why his body is never found and the need to use the red to confirm it.

So had Kanon and/or Battler actually “died” on the game board to0? In all likeness even if they hadn’t the bomb would likely take care of that sooner or later.

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24 Responses to EP 6 Game Results – Kanon Dead or Alive?

  1. sacchi says:

    I’m gonna take my time to read this post later (I have a friend’s dad wedding tonight ;O, gotta make sure I’ve got my clothes and stuff ready for it!), so I’ll just write this.

    SPOILERS FOR EPISODE 7 (how do you use white text? that’d help hiding spoilers)

    Well, Kanon is the culprit, that’s the conclusion I reach. (And I’m quite happy about reaching it pretty quickly as soon as Claire started talking about the kid’s childhood :D). I still don’t specifically understand why Battler’s presence makes the massacre happen. Kannon cares for Shannon. Should Battler have come a year before, maybe George and Shannon weren’t so deeply in love, and his presence wouldn’t bother so much. A year later, and Shannon and George would already be married. But Battler appeared right in the family conference where their union in marriage (the proposal really, not the actual ceremony) was going to happen. Maybe that’s why Battler’s presence made everything happen.

    I do have to ask you though, make an entry dedicated for the “Why dunnit”. Understanding the heart is hard. I find it hard because I’m led to believe there was no heart, or at least, not much. Kannon grew tired of everything, and he made a gamble. It’s like it says in EP7, a roulette, he freaking didn’t care if he killed or didn’t kill anybody, he didn’t have specific motives like money to kill, he just said “whatever happens, happens”. Like EP7 confirms, he isn’t even worried about dying himself, and he planned to possibly suicide.

    So, here’s a thing. Kannon starts the twilights. Before that, he obviously acted like Beatrice and gave Maria, who “recognized him as Beatrice” (without the need to dress as Beatrice really…as Maria recognizes people on their personality See: Mama/Black Witch) and gave her the letter telling everyone to solve the epitaph. So, Kannon-kun starts the killing. It’s easy to kill people when they’re not expecting it, but it’s very different when everyone is watching their backs. So Kannon-kun possibly tried to continue the killing and tried to do the second twillight, but was killed by somebody else who defended.

    There we’re led to believe that somebody should have talked, and said something like “Kannon-kun tried to kill me!”. However, this doesn’t happen. Two possible reasons. One, the person who defended and killed Kannon in the process played safe and didn’t talk, as he/she was afraid of being suspected as the true culprit. Or second, the person who fought back and killed Kannon was later killed by an accomplice, who used Kannon as part of the second twilight.

    Basically, what I’m trying to say…is that it doesn’t matter. Kannon didn’t plan on surviving. If he’s dead, that’s a pity. Usually, the culprit stays alive for the whole novel as he’s the one killing everyone, and the detective has to find it. I think Umineko is different. The culprit doesn’t care about anything, and if he dies, accomplices continue with the killings. The culprit can’t be found because he might already be dead.

  2. sacchi says:

    By the way, there’s something I don’t get. Why does the first pic say “Kanon: Died on the second twilight” while the umineko.wikia says Alive at the time of the game’s suspension? I mean, from what episode did you take the first picture of this entry from? It doesn’t make sense. The first pic you posted stating “Died on the second twilight” shouldn’t be from EP6, and thus there would be no confusion as to the fact that he’s alive by the end of the 6th game.

    PS. I read something EXTREMELY interesting in umineko.wikia. Did you know? The last game of Umineko might have choices that actually affect the narrative. How weird is that? I wonder if it’s true.

  3. sacchi says:

    PSS. Ok, last comment from me for today, I guess. Make a post dedicated to Yasu when you can. “I’m one yet many”. Umineko.wikia seems to take that as meaning that Yasu is the combination of Shannon, Kannon and Beatrice. I was thinking Yasu was the fake name of a single person in Umineko.

  4. keikakudoori says:

    @ Sacchi

    The 1st picture IS from Umineko EP6. The white table is from Umineko Wikia EP 6 too. I believed the content is wrong on Battler and Kanon because it contradicts the game results from the game itself. They ought to fix it.

    Well that’s what’s weird. It shouldn’t state Kanon IS dead. That doesn’t match the magic and game board scenes (they usually do) where we believe Kanon escaped the closed room, or rather to be more precise that he was “gone” therefore he shouldn’t have been killed by “Erika” (or any other)

    We also interpret this as implying that Kanon “stopped” existing once he rescued Battler thus why Erika could never found him. Simply because he didn’t exist anymore. Wouldn’t that be strange? (btw, I know from the logical point of view this is quite illogical) Hmm… fantasy approach? Very uncommon of me.

    Also this once again hints to the idea that some people never existed on Rokkenjima other being mysterious killed, people dying, and disappearing on this tale.

    I think you may already know what I’m talking about.

    ——————-

    I believe those rumors are true. I hope your HEART is ready in case you haven’t read this.

    Words from Ryukishi07 himself:

    “I don’t intend for this to be the end of the story.
    Episode six was the end of Battler and Beato’s tale.
    Episode seven was the end of (spoilers omitted)
    Episode eight is…

    It might not be that it’s over when the writing is done.
    Is it okay to say this? I might worry you.
    Before, BT-san used to say things like this. If it were him, would he really say it? It might have a different meaning in that case. (TL note: Bit unsure here)

    Episode eight has (a) choice(s)
    You become a character and make choices from his point of view.
    There’s also (a) bad end(s)
    The choice(s) are pretty tough.
    Seeing the murder for the first time, you might not be able to understand at first.”

    Cliffhanger. Twist. Turn the chessboard over. Witches gonna troll. Let’s reason it out. Let’s not forget the HEART.

    EP8 should be the “end” of Umineko but not really of the “When they cry series” (Yes!) that’s how I interpret basically. Because the “truth” of Umineko might not be so obvious because of this method Twilight will be using we might not understand the truth after we understand everything.

    Still
    I HAVE to explain Umineko before EP 8 Twilight is out (before the year ends) for this to be a proper game. I wish the EP7 patch would’ve come up earlier but nothing we can do. I have all necessary pieces so I should be able to form multiple truths to solve Umineko’s riddle. After all even EP8 won’t provide a single answer. Check Dawn 40 for more details on the game.

    • keikakudoori says:

      Forgot to mention.

      Kanon “was” already killed in the lovers duel by “Shannon” and his “spirit” is the one who saves Battler. He simply disappears once he saves Battler. This is according to the magic scenes where he is *killed*

      In the game board. Nothing is stated that Kanon was killed other than Kanon bleeding and disappearing in thin air from the guesthouse (I think we all interpreted it as Kanon getting out of the closed room at some point) There are no suspects. No “apparent” culprits or a need to kill Kanon (since everyone was playing alone with the farce). The game ends with a supposedly still “alive” (otherwise how he got to the mansion at all?) Kanon getting to the mansion and rescuing Battler from the closed room, taking his place and disappearing. According to the game board scene, Kanon *should* be alive.

      Theories about Kanon / Erika / Shannon run rampant.

      Unfortunately free WordPress doesn’t allow anyone to use of certain html codes such as those for color in the comments section. Those can only be used when one makes a post.

      I’ll probably get around making other posts after the year is over. Well, I’ll have to generally address Yasu in the final post for the year anyhow so you’ll see some thoughts on it, but I agree it and others should get a post of their own sometime.

  5. Haya says:

    Wow, it’s been a while.
    I hadn’t noticed the inconsistency between the Umineko wikia and the games.

    I’m pretty interesting in hearing your thoughts about the why dunnit and the heart of this mystery, as Sacchi mentioned. My own conclusions about the culprit are different than Sacchi’s, as well as the motive for murders. Because everyone can read this and end up with different conclusions, I’d love to hear your opinion about it in more detail.

  6. sacchi says:

    Since I don’t know where else to post, I guess here is a good place. I’m rewatching Umineko anime (which after reading the novels, I realize it kinda sucks a bit :P). Checking out the murders with the knowledge of the 7th episode. I am in the fourth episode, meaning I can just guess, since Beatrice and the lovely red truth haven’t appeared yet.

    First game:

    (Maria is given the umbrella and letter by either Kanon or Shanon. I should take a better look at it. She identifies the person as being possesd by Beatrice, that’s how Maria’s mind works. Thus, Beatrice gave Maria the letter.)

    First Twilight “Illusions to illusions”
    The first twilight still puzzles me. Theory: Eva and her husband killed everyone in the Parlor, then moved the bodies. The thing I wonder about are the servants. No idea who might have helped or not. Question: Did they reach the gold? It is very possible. The WEAPON are shotguns, which were used to destroy everyone’s faces. It is possible that Nanjo’s opinion regarding the supposed fact “Their faces were destroyed AFTER being killed” is wrong. The reasoning to argue that they found the gold is the following: THE GUNS. In the TRUTH, the guns are in the same room as the gold before all the murders begin. Natsuhi was not killed because she wasn’t present in the solving of the epitaph. SHANNON was the one who acted as Beatrice and explained the situation to everyone. She was killed by Eva and her husband, pretty much the same as EP7.

    Second theory: They were killed in the gold room, their corpses then moved. The blood in the parlor is FAKE. It makes sense, given the theory that the blood in Natsuhi’s door is also fake. As such, the culprits are Eva and Hideyoshi. The weapon is a shotgun. The place is probably the gold room. The murder: Everyone starts killing each other over the gold, with Eva and Hideyoshi remaining. They then kill Shannon, who acted as Beatrice. What do you think, everyone? “Illusions to illusions” is a reference to all the talking about Beatrice, the magic circles,

    Second twilight:

    A closed room. Oh, lovely, it has a chain! Illusions to illusions! The closed room is NOT fake, but DESTROYED. The room is closed until Kanon opens it. There, along with Kumasawa, they find Hideyoshi’s and Eva’s corpses. Then they run back to call everyone else. The murderer ESCAPES then.

    But this level of reasoning is silly. I shall change it. Kanon – Genji – Kumasawa provide a perfect closed room. Genji went with Kanon to open the room, they couldn’t. Genji orders Kanon to find Kumasawa. They come back and open together the room. Provided that they ALL lied, the following truths are acceptable: Any of them could have been inside the room. Truth for sure: Kumasawa did NOT kill anybody, she doesn’t have the strength to do it. I have no idea about Genji. HOWEVER, Kumasawa can put the chain on it. (In fact, one could argue that this closed room doesn’t even exist at all. If all three lied, there is nobody who can argue that the chain was set. Please correct me if there’s a red truth saying this. Even if there was, there are still countless possibilities about how this could have happened.)

    Theory: Kanon kills Eva and Hideyoshi. Genji arrives with Kanon in the room, and they realize the chain. “The cut of the chain and the escape of the one who put the chain from the room” must be done between the time “Genji went to call the others and come back”. If we reason this, who is faster? Kanon running to get the tool to cut the chain – or Genji going to the parlor, which in this mansion, is just going downstairs? Genji’s timing is TOO much. Thus I believe he was involved. Kanon and Genji’s involvement are essentials. I am not sure about Kurawasa though, but it’s possible.

    Therefore: The second twilight can happen in so many ways it’s not even funny 😛

    Third twilight: Kanon gets stabbed in the chest. Before reasoning, we shall add this: The burned body with 6 fingers, which may or may not be Kinzo, is the FOURTH twilight. Should we pay attention to the order in which this was carried out? Does fourth twilight being Kinzo mean that he was put a stake in his head AFTER Kanon died? Did Kanon DIE truly? His DEATH is confirmed this way (again, no red truth yet used as of my watching): Nanjo and Jessica come and say “He’s dead”. Is this too…easy? Plus, when everyone went to the boiler room, we saw Kanon SUPPOSEDLY “bleeding”, but he was still alive. A major difference from everyone else – who were killed by the time everyone else found them.

    In addition to this, more information: In episode 7, awesome Will is destroying the illusions. HERE IS THE THING. He first destroys the first and second twilight, and I’m playing this part again when I realize…. HE SKIPS THE THIRD ONE. He says no explanation regarding the third twilight. I’m taking this as further proof that Kanon did NOT die.

    Fourth twilight: A man with 6 fingers is burned in the boiler room. Theory: THIS IS NOT KINZO. Kinzo died some time ago, his body has decomposed by then. Thus, this is a fake, ADDED CORPSE. Further theory: He was burned during the night of the twilight, then put a stake on his head by Kanon – who, guess what, entered ALONE to the boiler room before everyone else.

  7. sacchi says:

    Fifth&sixth&eight twilight, first game. Explanation skipped by Will, he doesn’t mention them. Theory: Kanon killed Genji, Nanjo and Kuramasawa.

    Ninth twilight: Theory: Kanon kills Natsuhi.

    “And none shall be left alive” – When the clock ticks midnight, butterflies start to fly everywhere. I shall impose this theory as ABSOLUTE TRUTH, since it’s pretty obvious by now what happened: The moment the clock ticks midnight the bombs go off and everyone dies. The scene after the clock says midnight is an ILLUSION, it’s fake, it never happened.

    In the first game, there are no survivors except for Kanon, possibly. Or maybe not even him, given how it’s hard to imagine that he ran so quickly from the mansion to the hidden mansion.

    • sacchi says:

      And so ends my reasoning of the first game. Enjoy. I’m also not sure about how much I can really trust Umineko’s anime adapation, but George just made a nice comment. “Kanon-kun’s death was a true clue. Until then, we thought we knew what was going on…his death confirmed the presence of a 19th person.” Basically, thanks to his “death” (FAKE FAKE FAKE) everyone has enough evidence to say that the witch exists.

      Time to watch episode 6 now (of the anime).

    • Rob says:

      My answer to Episode 1.

      “First game, first twilight. Six corpses in the gardening shed.”
      “Illusions to illusions. The corpse that cannot return to earth returns to illusions.”

      Five of the corpses can return to earth (i.e. they were killed), the one that can’t returns to illusions (illusion of a corpse). There were only five corpses in the gardening shed at the first twilight. (This doesn’t violate the Episode 4 red about fake corpses because they’ve simply been fooled into believing there is an extra corpse, and none actually exists in the shed.) Shannon’s corpse is never seen (it’s described in narration, and implied but not stated that anyone actually checked), and Yasu’s/Clair’s backstory makes it seem fairly certain that Shannon and Kanon are Yasu’s split personalities. This can only be the case if Shannon’s corpse is not in the shed since Kanon is clearly present outside the shed. Will even points out how risky this twilight was. “What if that guy had really wanted to see that dead face?” Shannon has access to the guns in the underground VIP room and the garden shed key, so there is nothing further to the closed room and murders.

      I believe they were able to see a hand with George’s engagement ring on it in the anime version, and Hideyoshi talked about which finger the ring was on in the novel version, but there are plenty of bodies available to remove one from, and Hideyoshi’s speech could as likely be consoling George based on guesswork as something he’d actually seen. Nanjo is likely a conspirator, and he could pick undamaged bodies to examine before their suspicious activities brought the kids running and their priority became hiding them from sight. (Note also that Kanon’s timing in “finding” the bodies leads directly to the kids following the adults very shortly after the bodies are discovered.)

      “First game, second twilight. Two corpses are close together in a closed room protected by a chain.”
      “Illusions to illusions. A chain of illusions can only hold back illusions.”

      More or less as you said. Kanon arrives at the room with a master key, wirecutters and a gun, unlocks and opens the door, cuts the chain, shoots the two, stakes them through the bullet holes, then has Genji and Kumasawa create confusion over the opening of the door (whether by accident or design on their part). The chain securing the closed room is an illusion since it was broken before the murder took place.

      The third twilight is skipped because it’s “Praise my noble name”, which is just the envelope left under the door. Kanon is the fifth twilight.

      “First game, fourth twilight. The old head from the closed room study, confined in a scorching furnace.”
      “Illusions to illusions. Let the man of illusions go to where he belongs.”

      There’s no particular reason why Kinzo should be a fake corpse, and we have Episode 4 red saying that none of the corpses were fake corpses. As well, I note that Natsuhi reacts by denying everything about Kinzo all the time, even with everything else going on, but she is actually the one who points out that this corpse is Kinzo, and Genji pulls a burned and dirty key to Kinzo’s room from the ashes. As Genji and Natsuhi generally have these two keys all the time in Episode 5, this suggests that putting the key on the burned corpse was part of Natsuhi’s plan to accomplish the disappearance of Kinzo and make his office a fortress for them to hide in until the next morning.

      Will did in fact mention the fifth through eighth twilights.
      “First game, fifth twilight. The last moments of the sacrificed boy with a stake in his chest.”
      “Illusions to illusions. …The witch and stake of illusions can pierce naught but illusions.”

      I agree with you on this one. Likely Nanjo lied. Episode 4 red text doesn’t allow any person, living or dead to kill Kanon. With the alternate personality thing though, it is possible for “Kanon” to be “killed” by a personality not physically existing at the time, such as Beatrice. Once confirmed dead by Nanjo, Beatrice carries on using the body.

      Maria was asked by Beatrice to place the paranoia circle in Kinzo’s room.

      “First game, sixth, seventh and eighth twilights. Three corpses lying in the closed room of the singing girl.”
      “Illusions to illusions. ….Illusions are the blind girl’s song. Illusion of a closed room.”

      Seems pretty straightforward, except for the message for Natsuhi. Beatrice has killed Genji, Nanjo and Kumasawa. The message was also an illusion though. Natsuhi got a message over the phone, telling her what to do once she arrived in the parlour, and was told to tell the others that all she could hear was Maria singing. Maria was told to tell the others that Natsuhi was reading a letter she picked up before she left.

      Natsuhi had the misfortune to have the damaged rifle (which would be represented by Siesta 556 in the meta-world). When she dueled with Beatrice, only one shot was heard because hers didn’t work properly, but it was still smoking because she did try to fire it.

      As Beatrice walks down the stairs, Battler picks up the dodgy gun and aims. The clock strikes midnight, the bomb explodes… and on the ninth twilight none shall be left alive.

      • sacchi says:

        Admirable work, truly! *claps hands*. I’m happy to see others guessing the same things as me (plus knowing I’m not the only one who is completely bored today xD).

        I guess the anime isn’t that reliable then, but oh well, I’m too lazy to read all the first game again for now. Thanks for pointing out that of the third twilight. It is possible that Shanon was the one who built the second twilight then, killing Eva and Hideyoshi.

        Great guess at Natsuhi being told over the phone to leave everyone once they got to Nanjo, Genji and Kurasawa’s corpses. I didn’t believe she read any letter at all, but was lacking why she left the room.

        Cookies for Rob, your reasoning is superb 😀

        • Rob says:

          I’m glad you like it. 🙂

          I don’t think the anime is that unreliable, it’s just less easy to tell exactly which bits of information can be assumed true and which can be danced around as long as you can say “it wasn’t really seen!”. Shannon in the gardening shed is a perfect example. If we couldn’t see her at all, but we did see all the other bodies, we’d have grown suspicious of whether she’d been killed at all without ever really having to think about it.

          The phonecall message seemed a safe bet after seeing the child from 19 years ago calling Natsuhi in Episode 5 and getting her to do a lot of stupid things by holding her past over her. Natsuhi also seemed extremely inclined to assuming 19 people in Episode 1, when she was against all the other six Ushiromiya adults at one point in Episode 3 about whether Kinzo could have kept a mistress named Beatrice on the island. She doesn’t believe Beatrice exists on the island, but she’s positive there’s a 19th person in Episode 1, so it’s likely she was getting phonecalls from the child from 19 years ago throughout Episode 1, just like Episode 5.

  8. sacchi says:

    Second game:

    First twilight – “Illusions to illusions. The gold truth locks the lock of illusions.”

    The killers: Not sure. I’m starting to wonder something – is the first twilight always the product of Kinzo’s children arguing over the gold, and killing? A question that must be answered…but let us go on. Theory: The 6 kill each other over the gold, with Rosa being the one who survives. The illusion of the lock is simple: we’re led to believe that the chapel is a closed room, because nobody apart from Maria had possession of the key from the moment it was given to her to the moment Rosa acquired it.

    Thus, Maria is an ACCOMPLICE. She is therefore, in red truth, the one who opened and closed the chapel. Now, again with how silly Umineko’s anime is, but hey, I’m basing myself on this. So I’m gonna hope that this is also included in the novels: Shannon states that she found a note in the parlor saying “chapel”, and that’s why she went to it, where she found a magic circle written in “blood”, and called everyone else. Shannon is therefore an accomplice, most likely. The weapons were the guns as always, probably. A shot to the stomach, then moved to the chapel. Filling stomachs with candy is possible for a human – just a very sick thing to do 😛

    Second twilight: “Illusions to illusions. Illusions who have fulfilled their role do not leave a corpse.”

    Kanon kills Jessica. Too easy 😀

    • sacchi says:

      Kanon kills Jessica is too easy. I’ll get back on that in the future.

    • sacchi says:

      I just saw a red truth stating that the first twilight did happen in the chapel. So no moving bodies from one place to another one. The only thing that was moved were the bodies to put them around the table, and the sweets taken there. Oh, Rosa bought Maria lots of candies at the beginning of the game. Hehehe.

      Still, game 2 is more difficult than game 1. Let’s assume all the siblings kill each other in the Chapel, with Rosa being the survivor. She decorates the place, asks Maria for help to draw the circle, and creates the whole scene.

      The problems start in the second twilight. Illusions do not leave behind a corpse. Sure. But there’s a silly, horrible red truth that was played by Beatrice that states that Kanon was killed in Jessica’s room. So, Jessica’s death can be explained by thinking that somebody killed her and Kanon. Or, Kanon killed Jessica, and somebody killed Kanon. Whoever kills Kanon moves the body outside of the room, and locks it. The person that locked it was a servant, probably, as he had to have a master key.

      Jessicas’ key and 5 master keys: Jessica and Kannon’s are inside the room. Other than that, every other servant can be suspected.

      Then, Kurasawa and Dr. Nanjo get “killed”. I don’t like accusing Gouda ’cause he’s awesome, but I have to say that these deaths are probably fakes. They were never killed in this room, and Genji, Gouda, and Shannon lied.

      Uh, my head is getting tired. I’ll leave everything else for another day. Reasoning the second game is harder than it seems. I think I used to understand it, but I pretty much forgot about everything that happened in this one :P. Long time I didn’t check it out…

  9. sacchi says:

    After examining game 1, I’m going to distrust the game results. The Witch Game Results state that Shannon was killed in the first game, first twilight. That’s crap, I think everyone knows it by now.

  10. sacchi says:

    Hey game master, do you happen to be this guy?

    http://www.zimbio.com/Valentine+Rei

    • keikakudoori says:

      Red: No. No idea who that person is.

      I think I submitted the blog JAP to that zimbio page because I believed it was some sort of like blog aggregator a while back. I submitted the blog under anime /animation related but for some reason the posts (HiUmi for some reason at least) were added under that. I forgot all about it until you mentioned it. I thought it was a hassle to bother fixing. Might look into it.

  11. sacchi says:

    Second game, second twilight. Jessica kills Kannon, hides his body in another place, then fakes her death. It is the only truth allowed by “Kannon is dead” and “There’s a fake corpse”.

    I’ll revise the twilights later, got bored of thinking and continued watching the anime.

    Third game: The murders in this game are not the same ones carried in the first and second ones.

    First twilight. Eva solves the epitaph, and finds the gold. She is then explained by a servant/those involved in EP1 and EP2 murders the whole plan, like everyone was explained in the TRUE events that really took place (EP7 tea party). However, the true murderer of this twilight, or the one that created the closed room at least, is one of the victims. A trap, suicide, and homicide aren’t suitable solutions for this closed rooms circle. “The start and the end overlap”. Suspects: Genji, Shannon, Kanon, Gohda, Kumasawa. As always, Yasu makes me think of Shannon and Kanon. Most importantly, Shannon. She’s the first body to be found, and thus I would say is the “start”, and the start and end overlap.

    I provide no solution for this closed rooms. I can’t think of much right now.

    Second twilight: Here’s the catch. Maria helped the culprits in EP1 and EP2, that’s why she was never killed. But here, those who killed in those episodes are already dead. Thus, nobody needs Maria really. The crime: Eva kills Rosa and Maria. Hideyoshi is an accomplice who creates the illusion that he’s actually in the room taking care of Eva who has fever. In fact, Eva has no fever, and she’s killing Rosa and Maria while Hideyoshi acts.

    Fourth, fifth and sixth twilight: Again, these are not the murders of the first games. No fake deaths. Earth to earth. She’s really, really killing. She kills either Rudolf or Kyrie, and the other one tries to shoot Eva, but instead ends hitting Hideyoshi. EVA WOULD NOT KILL HIDEYOSHI, TRUTH. Eva then kills whoever was left alive. Earth to Earth. We have three real corpses.

  12. crimson says:

    i have a theory,its about yasu create a kanon persona and acted as him.it make sense though and it can also answer why kanon’s doesn’t leave a corpse.

    i think i know what happened in the guest room where battler is trap.
    kanon save battler went inside the guest room then hide in the closet.yasu then killed the kanon persona and hide under the bed isn’t that simple.
    furthermore,Will said in ep7,”only the actor can kill the character” yasu created the kanon persona for shannon so it means that yasu can kill kanon persona anytime she wants

    the important part is it doesn’t go againts the red truth that state“Kanon doesn’t exist in the room” “Kanon does not exist in the guest room .Of course, this includes all parts of the closet, the bedroom, and the bathroom.”
    the illusion doesn’t leave a corpse is also the same as how can a persona leave a corpse?

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