Jessica Faking it. True or False? And its Consequences EP7 & EP2

“I face palmed myself hard at this when I played EP7”

I believed there’s something seriously wrong with all the characters in Umineko no matter who they are. Some of these happen to play on creating the Illusion of the witch and or a crime. Jessica might not exactly be one but this revelation disturbed quite a bit.

Frankly, I had to different thoughts. The first was that I wanted to destroy this claim the moment I saw it because this is.. so.. This is so bogus. The second was the it was truthful therefore it should apply to all episodes. Hold that thought – I said.

Am I really doing this?


EP7 had plenty of logical explanations to the tale such as Beatrice and the gold. However there were many claims that were made that I either didn’t believe or much doubted their truthfulness because of how they were constructed and under “what” context.

Jessica always felt (in fact she was) always compared to George. In EP7 Lion is going to be the next head so the pressure goes to him, still everyone likes him and Jessica once again is compared to him to no end. Now let’s add George, who I take it, is still the (now 2nd) favorite cousin. Put simply Everyone > Jessica according to her parents. Lion took George’s position. Jessica still isn’t “acknowledged”.

In past episodes it was always Jessica isn’t ladylike. Jessica doesn’t get perfect +A grades like George (or Lion in EP7). Didn’t join X club, Jessica isn’t this or that.  Jessica, etc etc. Jessica is treated unfairly by her family. In a few words, she’s always put down. In EP5 Krauss makes a nasty comment, something along the lines of Erika being his not illegitimate daughter or that he wouldn’t bother having someone like Erika (implied) instead of Jessica. Even Rudolf tells him that’s going too far. Of course, I’m positive this was another reason why Jessica gets riled up and gets in an argument with Erika once the topic of the inheritance and the gold come up.

Jessica RAGE.

Jessica feels the pressure accumulating and lies about this illness to have an escape from all of this. I’ve never been in a position where I’m destined to be the next head of a super rich and influential family.. However not that I’ve never been compared to others, which I believe most people experience at some point in their life. Advice. Never do that to anyone. It’s not actually encouraging. Will even mentions something similar when they get on the topic of Maria.

“My problem with this claim.”

Problem

“How did Jessica have her parents believe it? How did the doctor buy it? Did they not ask him? Did he not notice? Didn’t they consult others? Why isn’t anyone else questioning her condition? How was she able to pull it off for so much time? How is it possible in the first place?

I’m not saying is “impossible” but there’s plenty of holes to poke on how difficult I can see it actually happening. One thing is faking a cold to not go to school because you’re tired or not feel like going, it is a whole another to fake a long-term illness to get off the hook.  How did the parents of the person to be the wife of whoever she married in the future to be the head of the family NOT bother to look harder into this? I believed all these points to be importance. Making everyone worry about an illness she doesn’t have? I get her point but I wouldn’t think Jessica should go that far assuming she does fake it in all episodes. Her “rebelling” is common among teenagers but implying that because of it she’d get people killed over it? I don’t think it should would reach that levels. This goes along with my claim that Jessica isn’t (or shouldn’t) be the culprit. I don’t dislike her character but I found her motive to be petty in comparison to the others’.

Explaining how it is possible in the first place, Jessica wants attention badly and to be noticed by her family.  Krauss is busy. Natsuhi As we can guess mostly “nags” her daughter because she’s worried about her future and the future of the Ushiromiya family. Assuming this claim is true then it’s possible she develops a type of Factitious disorder along the way a psychological problem followed by her “two separated me’s” way to live. Assuming it is false we can assume this is ONLY limited to EP7 where the stress increases with Ms. Perfect Lion and discard the possibility it was true in past EPs.

I think it can get more technical and I neither have the authority nor capacity to attest for the rest of the facts. This is simply reasoning on my part and how I’m connecting past evidence with the recent ones.

What difference does it make? I didn’t consider Jessica to be a perfect healthy person thus I didn’t think it was possible for her to be able to single-handly do the crimes therefore her role was the killer was heavily undermined and she was reduced to be accomplice at best. Assuming she was faking her illness in ALL episodes it means that the habit might’ve become real. This depends on how much she actually believe her own lies. We can explain this as an extreme form of “Factitious disorder” and spiraling into a psychological disorder if we so wish for those who want to make a case based on that. Then again I’m not Erika –

Though it’d be easy to put together a case using the evidence of a possible factitious disorder, the need to create an ideal self, being discontent with her family, love, and freedom AT LAST.

[….]

Still, I personally don’t believe  Jessica to be the culprit. Maybe because I underestimate her character from the culprit angle and because of her motives aren’t that strong. She even loses the Lovers trial implying in part she didn’t have what it took. Jessica should be an accomplice at best, should she be one.

The Crime:

There’s a scene I recalled the second I found out Jessica was faking her illness according to EP7 which was this. In EP2 after the 1st Twilight when Jessica goes to the VIP room to take revenge on  the guest, the “human”, Beatrice on that game as she believes her to be responsible for the deaths of her parents and relatives. All she finds is Beatrice’s letter mocking Jessica’s lack of intelligence among other things, as a result Jessica is upset again, has an asthma attack, and Kanon offers (and does) to take Jessica to her room. Gohda leaves and joins the others then finally moments later Jessica is found dead in her own room. Something about the keys. Kanon is gone. Implied to have been killed. And is the 1st suspect  according to Rosa because he’s missing.

* The rest is more theorizing on what happened at the moment. “Was the asthma attack real in the 1st place (assuming Jessica is faking it)? Isn’t Gohda the only one who SAW the asthma attack (therefore why Jessica went to her room with Kanon) and thus it would be FALSE assuming Jessica never had an attack in the first place? Is it possible Jessica only faked the asthma attack so she could be alone with Kanon? Is possible Kanon only wanted to get Jessica to the room to kill her, or the other way around? Isn’t Gohda..?”

— It does get interesting when we analyze past evidence.

The next post should mention the “theatergoing ability” I had some thoughts on it because it is closed related to this entry.

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23 Responses to Jessica Faking it. True or False? And its Consequences EP7 & EP2

  1. sacchi says:

    The thing about the keys:

    The room was locked. Only 6 keys can open the room. The 5 master keys and Jessica’s key. Jessica’s key and Kanon’s key were inside the room. Jessica’s body is there, but Kanon’s isn’t.

    That’s it pretty much.

    On Jessica: Freaking false asthma attacks? >_>. I missed that in EP7…my god. Now I’m mad lol. Let’s see…first things first. Kanon knows that Jessica’s asthma attack is false. My claim for this is based on my recent watching of the twilight in the anime Umineko, but it’s one of those things that I have no idea if they appear in the novel.

    Basically, the anime does show you Jessica taking out the asthma thingy and using it to stop the attack. If this also happens in the novel, then it reminds me a lot of a particular scene which involved Natsuhi , some servant and Kinzo. Battler argued that they could both see Kinzo, even though he was already dead by then, because they were “sharing the lie”. Just a thought there.

    Now, I trust Gouda, that’s just how biased I am in this reasoning. I’m going to say that he did NOT put Beatrice’s letter in the VIP room simply because he doesn’t have access to it. Yhea, whatever, I know this is a risky reasoning. Anyways, in this theory, Kanon put it there. Jessica might have suspected such thing and faked the asthma attack. Gouda was told to tell the others…and Jessica had the chance to confront Kanon about her doubts and suspicions.

    The problem still remains: Who killed Jessica, and who killed Kanon?

    OH MY GOD. As I was typing this sentence something came to my mind. Here it goes:

    “Kanon was killed in this room” – This is a red truth used by Beatrice.
    “Illusions cannot leave behind a corpse” – Will.

    Jessica freaking faked her death in EP2. OMG.

    Somebody share your thoughts on this…I can’t calm down xD

    • sacchi says:

      Oh, let’s add some fire to that theory. Jessica killed Kanon, moved out the body to somewhere else, then faked her own death. She wanted everyone to suspect of Kanon for some reason and to accept her death without questions. The question is…why? I’m always left with the why dunnit. Why fake her own death?

    • Rob says:

      I thought that bit was pretty certain in light of Episode 7’s thing on Kanon and Shannon being split personalities of Yasu. When the Kanon personality is “killed” it doesn’t leave behind a corpse because Shannon/Kanon’s body is still walking around as Shannon. They can’t be in two places at once, so “Illusions to illusions…. Illusions who have fulfilled their role do not leave a corpse.”
      As support for the idea, Kanon’s corpse is not found in Episode 2 and 4, Shannon’s corpse isn’t actually seen in Episode 1, and neither corpse are actually seen in Episode 3.

      On the original topic of the asthma attack in Episode 2, I was taking the way that was handled as just another piece of evidence that something was wrong with the whole scene, like seeing Kinzo appear to Battler in Episode 5 was evidence that we couldn’t trust the scene (and that Battler therefore wasn’t the detective that time). I have an explanation for the second twilight, but I have to start at the first twilight to discuss it sensibly.

      Second game, first twilight. Six with their stomachs split in the closed room chapel.”
      “Illusions to illusions. …The gold truth locks the lock of illusions.”

      The gold truth would seem to mean here that the promise of gold bought alibis from other people. As we actually see Shannon and Kanon together when the servants bring Rosa to the chapel, and Episode 7 makes it fairly certain that Shannon and Kanon are Yasu’s split personalities, have to assume that when we see them opening the door is a lie. It is actually possible that the chapel door was open the entire time since Maria received the key yesterday, hence the “lock of illusions” that the “gold truth” locks.

      It’s clear they’re working together since Rosa, Genji and Shannon all claim to have spoken to Kinzo and confirm each other’s stories when we know that’s a lie, and Rosa, Genji, Gohda plus both Shannon and Kanon are supposedly present when the chapel is “opened”. It’s harder to specify whether Rosa or Shannon is the main culprit at this point in the story, but I can construct a pretty good narrative for the rest of the story with Rosa as the culprit, while I can’t make sense of Shannon allowing Rosa access to the rifle if Shannon was the main culprit, or why the Beatrice letter in the VIP room would have a completely different tone than every other letter written by Beatrice. This makes it likely that Rosa found the gold, had Yasu’s Beatrice personality explain what her plans would have been, explain the bomb and show her the rifles as she did to the group in Episode 7. After this, the Beatrice personality should disappear, I think, as a consequence of someone solving the epitaph.

      “Second game, second twilight. The corpses of the two who are close are not close.”
      “Illusions to illusions. …Illusions who have fulfilled their role do not leave a corpse.”

      Quite simply, after Jessica is killed, Yasu’s “Kanon” personality is considered to have been killed by “Shannon” (like the duel in Episode 6, I would guess). As for Jessica’s murder, I would guess that Rosa did it. Because of time going backwards after we see Jessica and Kanon killed in the magic story, Rosa appears to have an alibi in the chapel at the time of the murder, but is actually supposedly going to visit Kinzo’s office and pick up the rifle alone. After Rosa kills Jessica, she places her room key on a table, Genji or Shannon locks up the room with their master key, and when everyone is gathered in Jessica’s room, Rosa explains that Shannon and Genji have alibis in Kinzo’s room which she herself confirms, and that Kumasawa and Gohda aren’t trusted enough that Jessica would turn her back on them, therefore Kanon must have been the culprit.

      Rosa’s plan here was that Jessica would be killed and the Kanon personality would be framed for the murder and vanish. All the servants were bought with Beatrice’s gold, so they would hold her story, and George, Battler and Maria would have no choice but to believe that Kanon was the culprit because they’re missing far too much information to reach the correct answer. They’d come to rationalise that Kanon must have worked with the Beatrice supposedly occupying the guest room to kill the six in the chapel somehow, and that would be the story that everyone would tell the police. Rosa would have kept everyone together for the entire time under “wolves and sheep” logic, then claimed that Kanon and Beatrice didn’t dare attack everyone while they were together and armed with a rifle.

      Now for the really horrible twist. Battler decisively proves that Kanon working on his own or with Beatrice could not possibly have created the locked room. Not only this, it’s the Battler on the gameboard who proved it. Meta-Battler doesn’t even get it at first when he starts explaining it! Piece-Battler solved this one on the gameboard… because if he hadn’t there would have been no further murders, so this world wouldn’t have been chosen as the gameboard in the first place. When he proved this, Rosa realised that the culprit she was setting up to give an alibi for herself and the servants didn’t work. This meant she’d have to set up one of the others instead to look like the culprit, and Battler is indirectly responsible for events continuing to spiral downwards…

      This leads directly to what happens in the servants’ room. The servants realise when Rosa skillfully chases them from the room that another alibi is exactly what Rosa will be thinking of, and they can’t talk with her about it in front of George, Battler or Maria. They decide to fake the deaths of Kumasawa and Nanjo to give Rosa an alibi, so that she won’t decide to kill any of them. With the servants actually responsible, there is nothing to the closed room here. They simply lock it on their way out after leaving a letter from Beatrice written by Shannon in the normal style.

      Their story of what happened involves Kanon and magic representing Beatrice because that’s who Rosa wants to be the culprits. Instead of relieving Rosa that she now has an alibi though, Rosa instead suspects that the servants are up to something and have betrayed her. She thinks Kumasawa and Nanjo are alive and can attack people by surprise, and that this is in fact their plan.

      The remainder is harder to rationalise because Will’s answers seem to point to all of them being real murders (“Earth to earth” instead of “Illusions to illusions” in his answers would seem to imply that) and even though Rosa could manage all of it while Battler was sleeping, something about finding the fourth through eighth twilights makes her jumpy enough that the paranoia circle Maria placed in the parlour makes her turn on Battler completely even though she seemed up to that to be intending to protect him if possible. Possibly that too is an act for Maria to have a convincing story to tell the police about how they became the only survivors?

      I’m also wondering if the ending shows us Rosa attempting to run to the passage to Kuwadorian. Maybe she succeeds in escaping with Maria and the ending scroll lies to us, or maybe when we see her injuring herself so that she’s unable to run, that prevents her from reaching safety before the bomb destroys everything.

      • sacchi says:

        I see we reached two very different truths about the second twilight. My answer is too simple perhaps, but yours is too complex. It’s pretty much a matter of whether Jessica is alive or not when everyone finds her. I’ll wait to see other people’s opinions before trashing my Jessica is alive theory. After all, what I say is also logical. There’s an illusion in the room. Kanon is certain to have been killed. It’s just Jessica’s death that is missing confirmation…

        “They decide to fake the deaths of Kumasawa and Nanjo to give Rosa an alibi, so that she won’t decide to kill any of them. ”

        I’m having such a hard time accepting that. Sorry, it doesn’t make sense in my head. It’s perfectly possible, but would they truly do that? They should instead try to warn Battler who is under danger, for example.

        I’d also say that Rosa got killed. When everyone’s killed, weird stuff starts to happen. In EP1, everyone was killed by the bomb and that’s when the butterflies start to appear, and Beatrice makes her grand entrance. In EP2 we probably have another everyone-dead ending. After everyone’s dead, illusions start.

        • Rob says:

          “After all, what I say is also logical. There’s an illusion in the room. Kanon is certain to have been killed. It’s just Jessica’s death that is missing confirmation…”

          I’m afraid I don’t see how this idea would deal with Shanon/Kanon/Beatrice/Yasu being the same person. As far as I could see this was pretty much confirmed in Episode 7. Maybe you have a different interpretation of that? Could you explain that as well, as otherwise I’m not sure where to start considering this possibility.

          “They should instead try to warn Battler who is under danger, for example.”

          It’s a widely noted phenomenon that when you tell one lie, it’s very easy to fall into the trap of telling further, more complicated lies when questioned with problems with the original lie.

          In this case, the original lie involves covering up the murders of the six in the chapel and Jessica. They literally have nothing to gain by coming clean to Battler, and covering up the original lie is their only option. Would they really expect he wouldn’t turn them in to the police for killing his relatives if he survived? Or that Rosa wouldn’t kill him and them if she learned they were conspiring against her?

          It seems pretty certain that Genji, Shannon and Gohda faked the deaths of Kumasawa and Nanjo in the parlour. It slips neatly past the red, we know that Yasu/Shannon was responsible for most Beatrice letters, and a Beatrice letter in the same style (as opposed to the VIP room letter, which was written in a different style) is found in this closed room. Their story is completely incoherent, and we know it makes no sense for it to be either Kanon or Beatrice as their story suggests, and the room it took place in is even up a flight of stairs from where they supposedly found the heavily injured Kanon, seemingly purely to set it up in the servants’ room so that the keys stored in that room were inside the closed room. Their story seems to be a lie intended to match with Rosa’s theories for the second twilight.

          The only question is why they’d fake the deaths, and if they knew (because they were co-conspirators) that Rosa had planned Kanon and Beatrice to be the culprit that they would blame to the police, Battler proving that they couldn’t have created the second twilight locked room would mean she’d have to plan something else as an alibi, and Rosa having them leave the room would indicate that one or more of them were to be her targets or people to pin the blame on. They have no way of discussing things with her while Battler and George are around, and she’s not likely to let them both out of her sight for long, as their presence is to be her alibi. Is it really that strange that they’d try to pre-empt her by providing her with an alibi that didn’t involve anyone getting killed?

          • sacchi says:

            Uh…it just seems kinda hard putting Yasu’s theory in this twilight like that.

            Anyways, after rewatching Umineko’s ep 24 I realized that I’ve been focusing so much on the twilights that I forgot that Umineko has other mysteries. More specifically, Battler not being Asumu’s son, and the letters that Maria supposedly signed. Not to mention the money that everybody’s sons get.

            Could Yasu also be a bit of Battler’s personality? I mean, Battler not being the son that Asumu had is still weird. Kyrie supposedly had a dead baby, that’s weird. In the first game, Rudolf also says that he wants to tell Battler something, and mentions “I’ll probably be killed tonight…”

            Basically, who is Lion’s counterpart? It is a boy for sure, since Lion’s gender was a nice topic brought up by Will in EP7. So I’m guessing it’s a boy. So, Kanon is part of Yasu, just like Shannon. But what about Battler? Is Battler the “dead son” Kyrie had? Did Rudolf, or somebody else, arrange a switch so that everyone thought Battler was Asumu’s son?

            “Battler is the grandson of Kinzo, but not the son of Asumu “. So he can be Beatrice (daughter) and Kinzo’s son, or Kyrie’s son.

            Since the former makes absolutely no sense, I’m gonna believe that Battler is Kyrie’s son.

            Opinions?

            PS. On your comment about Shannon’s body not appearing in EP1. In EP1, Kannon’s body also is weird. We never find out if Nanjo lied and Kannon was alive.

          • Rob says:

            We have or can work out answers to a few of those. Let’s see. We know from Episode 7 that Yasu/Beatrice was the one who wrote in Maria’s diary and planned to carry out the murders according to the epitaph, and also that she set up the 07151129 account that the money to pay the people who got the letters was stored in. We know from Episode 4 that the person who wrote in Maria’s diary also wrote the letters to Nanjo’s son and whoever else, and wrote the message bottle stories supposedly signed by Maria as well, so Yasu/Beatrice did them too.

            Yasu is a servant who has been on the island for 10 years, and is specifically noted to be the only servant of such a young age on the island while most of the Fukuin servants are aged 16-18. Yasu talks to Shannon constantly from the very beginning, however, while nobody else seems to talk directly to her before the bit where all the current servants retire at once (so even though from 1976 to present she looks identical to 1986 Shannon she has supposedly been there 10 years as well), and eventually has an imaginary younger brother named Kanon (who seems to take as his own the part of Yasu’s backstory where Genji pretends Yasu is three years younger than is the case to hide from Kinzo) and an imaginary witch friend named Beatrice. I don’t really see any other interpretation but that Yasu switches between alternate personalities Shannon, Kanon and Beatrice.

            Rudolf’s “I’ll probably be killed tonight” is not meant literally, I think. It just seems that way from the context, since he did actually get killed during the night in Episode 1. In Episode 5, Rudolf hints something similar, but phrases it differently, so that it seems that it would be the fact that he has something to tell Battler and Kyrie about Battler (presumably relating to him not being Asumu’s son) that would cause him to be killed – it’s a figurative “Kyrie’s going to kill me for this” rather than an actual worry that his life is in danger.

            Lion’s sex.. is difficult. It’s not specified anywhere at all in Episode 7, which allows us to try to find evidence for either Shannon or Kanon representing Yasu’s (and hence Lion’s) real sex. Also, since it has to be possible for events of 19 years ago to be different across worlds to have the world with a chance of Lion surviving, we could equally say that events 20 years ago could possibly be different and that Lion might not even have been born with the same sex as Yasu.

            There’s this really tiny bit at the very end of Episode 7 that suggests to me that Yasu’s genitals were damaged in the fall off the cliff, leaving Yasu not quite able to identify as either male or female. I’m inclined towards guessing that male genitals would be easier to damage this way, so I’d put Lion as slightly more likely to be male than female if we can assume the same sex as Yasu.

            It seems likely Yasu is using padding of some kind to pass as Shannon if Lion is anything to go by, which might also be slight evidence in favour of male, though it’s equally possible that Lion and Yasu are just flat-chested girls and that the Shannon and Beatrice personalities use padding because of Battler long ago saying that his preferred girl is “blonde and bouncy”. Shannon is the split personality who was in love with Battler for years before that was passed on to Beatrice.

            I’m pretty positive that Shannon/Kanon/Beatrice was the culprit in Episode 1, and that Kanon’s death was faked with help from Nanjo, yes.

  2. sacchi says:

    Hmm, agreed. Plus, Will does meet and talk to Shannon in the EP7. But when he calls for Kanon, he gets a warning from Bern that he’s about to lose the game and that calling Kanon is checkmate, kinda like a silly suicide.

    We have to ask ourselves why “calling Kanon” meant a gameover. It would require me to read the whole game again, but I wonder if anybody makes a reference to Kanon in EP7 apart from Will and Shanon. Oh…I think Kanon appears, but I’m not sure. Battler definitely doesn’t appear in the funeral. But Kanon? Hmm…I can’t remember. >_>. Basically, if Kanon doesn’t appear, it’s because in that world, Lion is there instead of him.

    What you say about Rudolf makes total sense, it was probably something like that. While it’s hard to guess I’d say Kyrie is Battler’s true mom, even though she doesn’t know it herself.

    I also finished rewatching Umineko anime, it’s hilarious to realize that Battler’s sin IS mentioned in the anime. But it’s in a scene so comedy-purposed that nobody would remember it two seconds later xD

    • Rob says:

      Lion does talk to Kanon in front of Will near the start of Episode 7. Lion claims not to recognise either Kanon or Shannon, and Shannon claims not to recognise Lion. Lion says that new servants come and go all the time, so doesn’t put much thought into why Kanon and Shannon are there. Shannon appears confused that everyone else thinks Lion is supposed to be there.

      It appears to be summoning Kanon in front of Shannon rather than summoning Kanon in front of Lion that Will is warned against, which is yet more evidence of Kanon/Shannon being split personalities.

      Will specifically mentions that the world he’s in while interviewing people here isn’t exactly a proper world, but one “sewn together from different fragments”, so it’s possible for Lion to meet Shannon or Kanon because even though they’re the same person, they’re from different fragments. It’s not possible for Shannon and Kanon to meet each other because they’re the same person from the same fragment.

      • sacchi says:

        Ah, I see. Thanks for clarifying that about Kanon. But the last sentence is a bit tricky. Shannon and Kannon can meet each other…they talk to each other and spend a lot of time together in every game. I don’t know why this one is different.

      • Rob says:

        They don’t, in fact. They’re sometimes in the same scene, but it’s always a scene that the detective, Battler, doesn’t witness, which makes it no more reliable than watching Beatrice fight Virgilia with flashy magic.

        Or a better comparison might be any of the scenes from Episode 4 with Ange talking to the stakes and Sakutarou in the normal world. She spoke to them while being bullied by the girls in her class, but we wouldn’t say they were physically there. Some of the Shannon/Kanon scenes actually have a very similar dynamic to the Ange/Stakes scenes, with Shannon being put down by someone, and Kanon reassuring her. It’s not a stretch to think of those discussions as being of similar reliability to Ange being reassured by the stakes.

        It’s very easy to miss though – Shannon is gone at the first twilight in Episode 1, Kanon is gone at the second in Episode 2 (but still before Shannon joins the group Battler is with), both are gone at the first in Episode 3, and everyone seems to be dead or missing about midnight on the first day, and before Battler confirms that anyone at all is dead in Episode 4. This means that for the entire second day, we never actually expect to see both together anyway. The couple of scenes where they are together on the first day and the opening of the chapel in Episode 2 aren’t ever witnessed by Battler and can be disbelieved.

  3. keikakudoori says:

    I’ve been following all the comments. Very interesting thoughts.

    Here’s my explanation on the last part and dealing with Kanon and Shannon being the same person.

    That reason for that is that Will is the detective therefore I think that he sees is a better unbiased “truth” or rather that he isn’t bound to follow any illusions put on the pieces, Will has no reason to lie or to play along with illusions. He’s here to solve the mystery.

    As far as I remember neither Erika nor Will ever encounter Beatrice (the Witch) in the game board. All the other characters claim to have seen “magic” or to have met “Beatrice” in past game which as we can guess from the logic side they’re all lying for their own reasons. Throughout the twilights of EP5 or EP6 the detective is never present or isn’t allowed near the crime scene until later, even the mysterious events such as the “knock on the door” Erika isn’t present therefore we don’t “see” through the eyes of the detective what might’ve happened on that room. EP6 follows the same design adding “letters” to create the illusion of the witch. The detective never encounters the supernatural factor head on. It is only their meta versions who ever encounter the magic. Why? Because if they were they would notice right away everything is a trick. Illusions to Illusions.

    Why didn’t Erika mention Skanon? There are explanations for that. It could be that her piece despite being the detective had a restriction, it could be that Bernkastel didn’t solve Beatrice’s riddle herself therefore she didn’t know of that trick either, it could be that Erika was manipulated by Bernkastel to not notice this trick and “just go along with it”, or it could be that it was according to Battler’s POV and Erika in fact never meets both Kanon and Shannon at the same time. As we’ve seen EP5 was a way for the Witches to kill time. They played too much and lost that round.

    Will meets Kanon before he enters the chapel then meets Shannon later but he never meets both of them at the same time. All the other characters have talked to both Shannon and Kanon at the same time in past games but none has never made a comment about them being the same person. The idea is further twisted when we have two of the cousins with love interests in the “same” person assuming both Kanon and Shannon share the same body. By common sense they would “notice” there is only one person. By common sense Natsuhi and the Ushiromiya would notice that there’s only one servant doing all chores. The only way I could see it being allowed is that Kinzo himself made the claim that both of them would be considered different people (same with Beatrice’s existence) and that “no one should question this.” The problem with it is that Jessica & George should know this and if they didn’t their parents should tell them that they’re relationship is impossible because there’s only one person. I can’t image Eva not mentioning this to George in addition to Shannon is only the “maid” or Natsuhi to Jessica revealing that Kanon is in fact her friend Shannon. It gets even more twisted from that.

    The biggest question is why would they share that lie in the first place? It can be explained by what I just mentioned, however having everyone go along with it and not mentioning it is insane.

    As for the rest they say that after Kinzo’s death “there are no more than 17 people on Rokkenjima” The thing is that there could be less. The thing is that they never say that there are exactly 17 bodies on Rokkenjima either. Khannon theory is valid because it has never been stated the number of bodies on Rokkenjima and that there could be “less” 17 people on the island.

    Battler should’ve had Beatrice at least say in red “There are no more than 17 bodies on Rokkenjima” (there are 17 bodies on Rokkenjima would be better) a long time ago though I’m sure she would’ve said no.

  4. sacchi says:

    I’ll make a small note since I can’t type too much from where I am right now :/

    Let’s make a little recap to the great ending of EP6!

    Erika:# I am the visitor, the 18th human on Rokkenjima!!
    Battler:# [……Sorry, but…] Even if you do join us-
    # There are 17 people.

    There are more humans than people because two humans, Shannon and Kannon, make “one”.

    • sacchi says:

      Meaning that for everybody with common sense, and from a non-Umineko-fan point of view, there are truly two people. Kanon and Shanon. They aren’t the same human. But in Umineko, these two people are actually two halves, that make “Yasu/Beatrice” when put together.

      “There are no more than 17 people on the island” means that there could be less, and it is indeed the case. The case is that there are 16 people in the island. Plus Erika, it makes for a total of 17 people, like EP6’s ending confirms it. There are at all times 17 humans on the island, plus Erika in EP6, makes for a total of 18.

      That’s why:

      Erika:# I am the visitor, the 18th human on Rokkenjima!!
      Battler:# [……Sorry, but…] Even if you do join us-
      # There are 17 people.

      Can all be said in red.

  5. Rob says:

    “All the other characters claim to have seen “magic” or to have met “Beatrice” in past game which as we can guess from the logic side they’re all lying for their own reasons.”

    Knox’s 9th. It is permitted for observers to let their own conclusions and interpretations be heard.

    They could be lying, but we can also guess that they’re mistaken, and particularly in the case of meeting Beatrice, I think being mistaken is a very real possibility. If nobody has figured out that Shannon and Kanon are the same person, it seems pretty likely that Yasu is good enough at disguises that it mightn’t be difficult to convince people they had met Beatrice.

    I can think of one odd little fact as well that might even make people being mistaken about what they see more likely: Albinos tend to have quite weak eyesight.

    We saw in Episode 7 that even the young Kinzo had white hair, and Rosa’s description tells us that Beatrice II was blonde. If Kinzo was an albino, that would make sense. If it’s just an art choice that Kinzo has white hair, it would be extremely, extremely unlikely. Not only that, but all the other Ushiromiyas who have unlikely hair colours for Japanese people still have possible hair colours, and even possible hair colours for albinos – albinism can range from white to blonde like Jessica or even red like Battler, Ange, Maria and Eva. Any of the Ushiromiyas could also be albinos who chose to dye their hair, of course.

    Not only that, but it was brought to our attention in Episode 1 that Kinzo had a different genetic disorder (polydactyly), which might be shared with some of his descendants, and that it was common enough that the unrelated Hideyoshi also had it. If hair colours are real hair colours, it would seem that Kyrie’s is also white, making her another likely albino. If it is the case, the clues were certainly presented, and apart from the final clue of Kinzo’s hair colour, all in Episode 1 too…

  6. sacchi says:

    Uh, that sounds too complex for me. Has anybody truly announced that they’ve met Beatrice, apart from Kyrie in episode 2? In EP2, only the special servants can meet her (Genji, Shannon, Kanon) and they all probably lied. Apart from them, Kyrie saw something that looked like the woman in the portrait and announced it during the dinner. Finally, Battler met Beatrice but not after drinking a lot of whiskey.

    Not sure about the rest of the episodes though. In EP1 we could guess that if they managed to solve the epitaph then the adults met “Beatrice” like in EP7’s tea party. However there’s something that annoys me of that theory. In EP7, when they find the gold, Shannon (I’m guessing it’s her disguised as Beatrice) doesn’t fight. Once the gold is found, she doesn’t do anything more. So had the gold been found in EP1 by the adults, then Shannon wouldn’t have continued “playing the roulette” and faked death in the first twilight.

    So, here are my thoughts. IMO, in EP3 Rosa and Eva find the gold. In EP4, it’s probably exactly like EP7’s tea party and they all found the truth, and started killing each other. In EP1, they didn’t and that’s why Shannon continued acting with the plan. In EP2…I don’t know. The chapel is a weird location for everybody’s corpses to show up at. My guess is that they didn’t find the gold, but that kinda contradicts my theory that Rosa was involved in a shooting like EP7’s, and was the survivor of it.

    • Rob says:

      “Uh, that sounds too complex for me. Has anybody truly announced that they’ve met Beatrice, apart from Kyrie in episode 2?”

      Apart from the servants? Maria several times, Rosa in Episode 2, Battler in Episode 4. It’s been noted that Maria recognises people by behaviour rather than appearance, but that still makes her mistaken rather than lying. As the detective, Battler’s not allowed to be lying about it. What’s complex about people being mistaken? It’s one of Knox’s rules and specifically allowed. Every time somebody sees Shannon or Kanon and doesn’t recognise them as the same person they’re being fooled by a disguise, after all. The albinism idea is just a possible justification, and not necessary for the rest to be true.

      It’s very likely that somebody showed the gold to the family in Episode 2, whether it was Shannon abandoning the original plan or one of the family solving the epitaph. There were three ingots left on the table in the chapel, while the servants mention that Krauss had exactly one in his possession. While the magic-side story at midnight in the chapel isn’t reliable, if you read it as someone presenting a “Devil’s Proof” that they’ve discovered the gold by presenting the gold itself, it actually makes sense even if it can’t be taken literally and accounts for the appearance of the extra gold.

      An Episode 7 scenario where everyone finds the gold and they fight among themselves, with Rosa as the only survivor isn’t allowed by the red though.

      During Episode 4 we get this in blue: “The victims locked the door from the inside. One of the six was the culprit, and this person killed the other five, then pretended to be dead!!”

      and this reply in red: “The six people were already dead by the time they were discovered! All were killed by other people! All six were genuine victims, and did not take part in a mutual murder! There was no simultaneous murder!!”

      This seems to be quite specific that any of the victims didn’t kill each other.

  7. sacchi says:

    For those who actually continue to watch anime, try the new anime Gosick.

  8. Apollo says:

    Hi.

    Here’s my theory regarding Jessica: she actually does have asthma, but she fakes it sometimes in order to escape certain situations. .

    • AuraTwilight says:

      This is actually the case, and it really speaks of how chowderheaded other people are when they don’t pick up on it. Jesus christ, it’s not like Jessica’s never seen a doctor.

      • Fullmetal says:

        Actually, Jessica only faked those attacks when she was little. Because of that, she developed psicosomathic asthma (so she isn´t faking it when it happens in 1986).

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